[Bábá to one avadhúta:] Come here, come here. If eternal time and nature are working in closest cooperation, then can [[that cooperative body,]] that cooperative entity, be accepted as the goal of human life?

[Avadhúta: “The tempus eternal and nature combined together can never be the object of ideation for microcosms, for these reasons: first, because ‘the tempus eternal’ means – due to psychic measurement of the motivity of –”]

[B:] The tempus is the psychic measurement –

[A: “The tempus is the psychic measurement of the motivity of action. Now wherever there is a question of psychic measurement, it is the unit mind that will measure, the unit mind being the measuring rod. That measuring instrument can never become the object of ideation: it is quite imperfect. The second thing is, when there is a question of the measurement of the motivity of action –”]

[B:] Measurement is a psycho-physical action. It starts in the psychic sphere and ends in the physical sphere.

[A: “So the psychic action that starts in the psychic sphere and continues in the physical sphere is also circumscribed by time, space and person. So in that case also we find that it comes within the scope of relativity. And anything that comes within the scope of relativity can never be the object of ideation. The same thing can apply to the question of motivity. Because motivity always takes place within the psychic sphere, [[the psychic realm,]] [and] anything coming within the scope of relativity can never be the object of ideation.”]

[B:] Motivity functions in both the psychic sphere and the physical sphere.

[A: “So in that case, we do not find anything transcendental. So that which remains within the realm of physicality or the realm of psyche can never be the transcendental goal of the microcosm.”]

[B:] Then no non-transcendental entity can be the goal of human life.

[A: “Then again – the motivity of action: action is always done either in the physical or in the psychic sphere.”]

[B:] What is action?

[A: “Action is the change of place of any object.”]

[B:] The bolster is there, the bolster comes here. There has been change of place. So some action has been done.⁽¹⁾

[A: “Naturally for any action to be manifested in this expressed universe space is required. Anything that comes within the scope of space is bound to be [[circumscribed by]] the factors of relativity and hence can never be transcendental in character.”]

[B:] Anything that comes within the scope of space, comes within the scope of time and person also, so it is a creation of relativity.

[A: “Hence it does not deserve to be the goal or the object of ideation of the microcosm. Then again, nature. We know very well that nature is not any conscious entity. It is just a style of functioning of the Cosmic Operative Principle, just a mechanical style.”]

[B:] [[The root of “nature” is [the French word] nature. And nature means “following a particular course of action”. Nate means “birth”. It is a French word whose root was old Greek.⁽²⁾ From it the word “natural” comes; and also]] “native” – “born in that particular space”. It comes from the word nate, N-A-T-E. “Conation” – “born at the same time”. “Co” – nate + “ional”.⁽³⁾

[A: “If nature is just a style of the mechanical functioning of the Cosmic Operative Principle, it can never be the goal of human [[beings]].”]

[B:] As for example, any work, any movement, is of systaltic nature, or pulsative nature – like this – it is nature.⁽⁴⁾

[A: “The Cosmic Operative Principle, under the guidance of the Supreme Force, which is much higher than that principle, has been instrumental in the expression of this universe, and this nature is nothing but expression of the style in which this manifested universe is coming into being. So this style can never be the goal of ideation of the microcosm, hence neither the tempus nor the tempus eternal –”]

[B:] Tempus eternal – mahákála in Sanskrit.

[A: “or nature or these factors together combined should ever be accepted as the goal of microcosms.”]

[B:] And if there is a very happy blending between the tempus eternal and accident?

[A: “In that case also, the combination of these factors does not deserve to be the goal of the microcosm because these factors are not transcendental in character. They have to work within the scope of [relativity].”]

[B:] If “Mahákála” says, “I am the Tempus Eternal, I am the Lord of everything, I am the Lord of all I survey,” then what will be your rejoinder?

[A: “The time factor is a part of relativity. The time factor is a condition or is a by-product, or is one aspect, one facet, of the Cosmic Operative Principle, and the Cosmic Operative Principle is not the supreme factor.”]

[B:] She is not the supreme factor.

[A: “Not the supreme factor.”]

[B:] Go on explaining.

[A: “Because actually the –”]

[B:] Let me learn a little more. [laughter] Go on, go on explaining.

[A: “Time, space and person: there are these three dimensions. These are the expressions of relativity. And relativity can never be the object of ideation for human beings, because it is dependent on certain other factors. It is not svadhá, it is not a self-creating entity.”]

[B:] Not svadhá.⁽⁵⁾

[A: “[[If]] there is no action in this universe, there is no question of psychic measurement. So naturally, since they are bound by –”]

[B:] Tethered by –

[A: “– tethered by imperfection, by the temporal, spatial and personal limitations, naturally they can never be accepted as the object of ideation of a human being.”]

[B:] And if they are accepted as the object of ideation, ascribing Parama Puruśa-hood to them, then what will be the result?

[A: “In that case, they cannot be accepted as the goal. We will have to work within the scope of these things, but they cannot be accepted as the goal.”]

[B:] But if Parama Puruśa-hood is ascribed to them, ascribed to that cooperative body of tempus eternal and accident? A knotty philosophical question.

[A: “According to our philosophy, if we work, we have to work within the scope of this manifest universe. But while dealing with each object of this manifest universe, or working within the scope of time, place and person, we ascribe Náráyańa-hood, or Brahma-hood, to the form or to the idea of an object. Then the so-called physical [[work]] with which we [[engage ourselves]] will be transformed or converted into spiritual work.”]

[B:] Into the Transcendental Entity.

[A: “So by ascribing Náráyańa-hood to any object of the universe –”]

[B:] Any object. It is not a special case with the tempus eternal and accident.⁽⁶⁾ But regarding the tempus eternal and accident, what is your reply?

[A: “So the ascription is the only process. We have to remain within the realm of relativity, and from our stance within relativity, we have to [[aspire]] to the Supreme stance of salvation.”]

[B:] Tempus eternal and accident, a happy cooperation, a happy cooperative blending, then, can it be accepted as the goal? No.

[A: “If it is done from the spirit of ascription –”]

[B:] No, no, I said – there is no question of ascription.

[A: “Then in that case, if there is no ascription of Náráyańa-hood to those factors – then naturally, they themselves cannot be accepted as the goal of human beings.”⁽⁷⁾]

[B:] If there is a happy cooperation between nature and accident – Accident means accidental happening. “This universe is an accidental happening.” [[There are people who]] say like this.⁽⁸⁾

[A: “Actually, there are some people who illogically put forth the view that this universe came into being out of an accident. But we know fully well that there is nothing like an accident in this universe. Everything is incidental, because we always require two factors: first of all, there must be a cause leading to a particular effect. Sometimes out of our ignorance we overlook the cause and simply come to the conclusion that the effect is there. But it is the wrong conclusion. It is simply due to ignorance that we are misled that way. So that this universe came into being was definitely the effect of some cause. And this cause was the Supreme Entity, or I should say the Macropsychic conation. It must have been there at the beginning of the manifestation of this universe.”]

[B:] You know there is a fine line of demarcation between transcendental entities and non-transcendental entities. Now the causal factor lies beyond that line, beyond that fine line of demarcation. And the effect factor below that line. So when we move forward, towards the Causal Entity, I say the Causal Matrix, what happens when we cross that line? There remains no microcosm, no Macrocosm even. So human beings fail to find the link between transcendental and non-transcendental. And when a person becomes one with the Transcendental, he maintains no link with the non-transcendental entity at that time. After that, he says, “Oh, I am lost in the kingdom of bliss.” Always only that Transcendental Entity can be accepted as the object of adoration, and nobody else, and nothing else. So if there be a combination of nature and accident, the combination cannot be the object of adoration either.

Now, the quinquelemental factors. If there is a cooperative structure of nature and the quinquelemental factors, can it be the object of ideation, can it be the goal, can it be the Desideratum?

[A: “The cooperative structure of nature and quinquelemental factors, similarly, cannot be accepted as the goal of ideation. Because the quinquelemental factors, combined together, constitute the material universe, the expressed universe. This universe you see, which comes within the scope of our senses –”]

[B:] What is matter?

[A: “Matter is nothing but the combination of all five fundamental factors.”]

[B:] How are those fundamental factors created – the rudimental factors?

[A: “These five rudimental factors, first of all –”]

[B:] It is better to use the word “rudimental.” Not “fundamental”. “Fundamental” means “based on fundament”, “rudimental” means “based on the root”. From “root” the word “rudimental” comes, and from “fundament” the word “fundamental” comes. So in our philosophical expressions here regarding the quinquelemental factors, we should use the word “rudimental” and not the word “fundamental”.

[A: “The five rudimental factors, that is, ether, air, gas, liquid and solid – these five rudimental factors, when combined together –”]

[B:] How are they created?

[A: “In the beginning, I should say, the supreme causal factor was one. Eko’haḿ bahuśyám – ‘I am one, I shall become many.’ In the beginning there was only one Entity and there was nothing else.

“This Entity, this Parama Brahma, comprises two aspects: the cognitive and the operative aspect. These two aspects together constitute one Supreme Entity. That was the state where there was no scope of expression. [[The seed was there, but there was no scope of expression.]] So in that state, ultimately, Parama Puruśa imagined, ‘I am one today, but let Me be many’ – Eko’haḿ bahuśyám.”]

[B:] Ekah Sadviprah bahudhá ca yad vadanti – “That one Supreme [[Sadvipra, He]] speaks through so many vocal cords.” [[That one Supreme Sadvipra, Mahásadvipra, He speaks through so many vocal cords.]]

[A: “There was a state where there was no scope of expression, but ultimately a state came where there was some sort of imagination or some sort of kalpaná.”]

[B:] In the case of the jiiva it is called kalpaná. You create an elephant in your mind; that is kalpaná.

Is there any girl here named “Kalpaná”? No.

And when this kalpaná is His, then it is called saḿkalpa. This means “firm determination”.

Now if your kalpaná creates an elephant, that elephant may remain in your mind for a few minutes or a few seconds – it is not of permanent nature. But when He took His saḿkalpa, that is, firm determination, He created everything – this world, this particular planet, everything. It is not so temporary. Although it is also moving, a passing show, a moving panorama.

[A: “With His saḿkalpa, in the state of Supreme Transcendentality, the centrifugal process began and the first phase of the centrifugal process emerged, the first part of the Cosmic Mind, which we call Cosmic Mahat. In the gradual process of further crudification, we find the emergence of Cosmic Ahaḿ and citta. These three functional chambers, with the vast Macrocosmic body, constitute Cosmic Mind.”]

[B:] That is, it is solidified Cognitive Principle. The quinquelemental factors are solidified Cognitive Entity. Then?

[A: “Then in the second phase, after the emergence of Cosmic Mind, there is a completely inanimate state. Or not actually inanimate state, but, you can say, purely mental state.”]

[B:] Now in the process, five quinquelemental factors were created.

[A: “In the process of crudification we find the emergence of the five factors, the first one being ether.”]

[B:] The question was, if there is a cooperation of nature and the quinquelemental factors, and if that is accepted as the goal, what will be the result?

[A: “If nature, in [[combination]] with the quinquelemental factors, goes on creating, ultimately we will find something which will never be beyond the scope of relativity. Anything which remains confined by the limitations of materiality – how can it be the object of ideation of the microcosm? Because the microcosm will have to go beyond the scope of relativity; it will have to become one with the supreme state of transcendentality. So thus we can say that the quinquelemental factors combined with nature can never be the goal of the human being, because this combination can never lead humans towards emancipation.”]

[B:] So idolatry, which is so prevalent in India, is meaningless, has got no value in the realm of spirituality.

Footnotes

(1) The foregoing sentence has been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.

(2) A sentence here was unclear on the tape. –Eds.

(3) The foregoing eight sentences have been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.

(4) The foregoing sentence has been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.

(5) The foregoing sentence has been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.

(6) The foregoing sentence has been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.

(7) The foregoing sentence has been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.

(8) The foregoing sentence has been transcribed from the original tape for this edition and incorporated here. –Eds.